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Mark Gray |
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read_this
Just can't stay away
Joined: 16-May-2006
Posts: 109
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Posted: 2006-06-28 13:29
Funnily enough I am aware of the rules quoted and their consequence. Again if you read earlier in the thread you will see that I find the possibility of a rule change unlikely.
Basically, skilled players would like to reduce the luck element of the game as much as possible and this is one of those instances. Unfortunately short racks due to poor racking are within the scope of the rules. In this instance the rules slurp. If they did not then this thread would not exist.
So basically what you are proposing / backing up is the current catch 22 situation - you cannot have unilateral agreements outside of the boundaries of the rules so you must change them, but the rules related to this are not going to change.
An imperfect world, but at least we can debate it.
Do the rules allow me to insert my break cue in your left nostril should you commit this cardinal sin against me?
Regards,
B
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malaguista
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1176
From: Spain
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Posted: 2006-06-28 13:47
!!! QUOTE !!! Do the rules allow me to insert my break cue in your left nostril should you commit this cardinal sin against me?
2.28 UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT The referee has the right and obligation to ensure that no player engages in any activity which, in his judgement, is unsportsmanlike in nature, embarrassing, disruptive or detrimental to other players, tournament officials or hosts, or the sport in general. The referee or other officials shall have the right to penalize or disqualify, with or without warning, any player who acts in an unsportsmanlike manner.
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read_this
Just can't stay away
Joined: 16-May-2006
Posts: 109
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Posted: 2006-06-28 14:02
On 2006-06-28 13:47 , malaguista Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! !!! QUOTE !!! Do the rules allow me to insert my break cue in your left nostril should you commit this cardinal sin against me?
No, they don't.
2.28 UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT
The referee has the right and obligation to ensure that no player engages in any activity which, in his judgement, is unsportsmanlike in nature, embarrassing, disruptive or detrimental to other players, tournament officials or hosts, or the sport in general. The referee or other officials shall have the right to penalize or disqualify, with or without warning, any player who acts in an unsportsmanlike manner.
Fair enough, I'll use my playing cue instead!
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pooljedi
Home away from home
Joined: 18-Apr-2006
Posts: 293
From: Preston
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Posted: 2006-06-28 14:19
the main problems i see with changing the rules are as follows
if the 9 stays over the bag with the 1 next to it will the incoming player offer a rerack. probally not.
when the 9 goes in who determines it went straight in. i got one on saturday and couldnt tell u how it went in and unfortunatley it wasnt on sky so we couldnt watch the replay.!!!!
Plus sorry to go on but even on a loose rack the 9 could still get knocked away by balls flying past it.maybe u are all cleverier than i but who can rack and guarentee a golden break everytime?
let the opponent rack check it yourself and then let any luck commence.
fair play to the lads who offered the rerack but i rack as tight as i can and would never think to offer a rerack or expect one.
SORRY!!!!!
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dazzler
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1289
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Posted: 2006-06-28 15:16
To be quite honest, i dont know wha all the fuss is about. Some players ask their opponent before a match starts if they agree that if a 9ball shoots straight in to rerack...they dont have to agree. I personally dont ask at all any more, but if someone asks me then i will agree to rerack. In my quarter final at the weekend, Steve Evans asked me and i agreed...it never had to come into play though...its just that it did in the final....if it had been in the first round nobody would have said anything, but it didnt. ----------------- 
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Crazycue
Home away from home
Joined: 28-Jun-2006
Posts: 210
From: Lincolnshire
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Posted: 2006-06-28 16:19
On 2006-06-28 15:16 , dazzler Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! To be quite honest, i dont know wha all the fuss is about.
Some players ask their opponent before a match starts if they agree that if a 9ball shoots straight in to rerack...they dont have to agree.
I personally dont ask at all any more, but if someone asks me then i will agree to rerack.
In my quarter final at the weekend, Steve Evans asked me and i agreed...it never had to come into play though...its just that it did in the final....if it had been in the first round nobody would have said anything, but it didnt.
I agree with your comments Daryl. I am a good friend of Mark's and a forum virgin, so apologies if this doesn't work properly. Having spoke with Mark, he thought it was a little unfair, hence the offer of the re-rack. Until a formal runling is made and introduced into the rules of the game, then I believe it should be upto the indivdual players to agree game by game. ----------------- Crazy Cue
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malaguista
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1176
From: Spain
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Posted: 2006-06-28 16:48
If I ever play you D4ryl and I pot the 9 off the break, assuming that I get a break, I won't be offering you a re-rack so be warned.!!!!!
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malaguista
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1176
From: Spain
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Posted: 2006-06-28 16:50
I only posted the last comment to see if my "Just can't stay away" ranking would change after 100 posts!!!!!!!
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TheSurgeon
Home away from home
Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Posts: 529
From: Leeds
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Posted: 2006-06-28 16:57
I don't know.... :o)-
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DaveMc
Just can't stay away
Joined: 10-Apr-2006
Posts: 127
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Posted: 2006-06-28 17:58
Dont know if this has already been mentioned but on the eurotour the tables are tapped and you rack 4 each other. Its harder to rack them badly than well and I've seen 1 golden break in all the matches I've played in/watched over the last 3 events. Unfortunately Rileys wont allow their tables to be "tapped" and I can't see their stance changing in the near future. Shame really as it does no damage to the tables and iuts not like they're even close to the standard or cost of the tables used on the eurotour.
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expertfluke
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 749
From: Hertfordshire
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Posted: 2006-06-28 18:12
Mmmm 49 posts......so what are people's views about the 9 ball going in off the break???
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Steve_Brown
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Posts: 35
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Posted: 2006-06-28 19:04
I think that Rileys should think a bit on this one!
Lets face it, most people that go into the clubs just abuse the tables anyway. Stretford on the EPT was tapped at the other end, so how would that cause a problem to the people who go in to play? they would'nt have a clue what it all means. Plus the players who are at a higher level might prefer them to be tapped. I know i would, the back aint as good as it used to be and the EPT event is the first time for me with tapped balls.I thought it was better.
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gaz1210
Official Pro9 Tipster!
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 119
From: North-East
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Posted: 2006-06-28 20:21
To me this sets a dangerous precident for the future, having happened in such a high profile event you assume the majority of bppa players are aware of what occured, the next time this happens and the player benefiting as they are quite entitled to do under the rules does not offer a re-rack he or she runs the risk of been branded unsportsmanlike when truth be told they have done nothing wrong.
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cusack_147
Home away from home
Joined: 17-Mar-2006
Posts: 991
From: Southport
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Posted: 2006-06-28 22:37
Totally agree with you Gaz, I dont think you should be forced into offering a re-rack because this is simply part of the game. Is it possible to set up a rack in such a way as to make the 9 ball in the corner bag? I think if the 9 goes in this should be just seen as a stroke of luck and a simple apology should be given if this happens. However if this is happening regularly to a certian player then the opponent should view the rack before the break. I have seen at least one player on the BPPPA tour who seems to make a lot of 9's off the break but I will not mention any names.
I personally feel all tables in clubs, that will host tournaments, should be tapped as this allows for a much fairer game and also allows more accurate and consistent breaking. When I played in the EPT event and also at Replay in Stockport, the tables were tapped and I found that this was much better for breaking. And its not like it takes a lot of time to be done either.
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poolknight
Home away from home
Joined: 22-Jun-2006
Posts: 478
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Posted: 2006-06-29 05:57
if barry hearns can enforce alternate breaks for some of the 9 ball comps hes promoted on tv could he not come out with some solution at the world championships
this would get more international agreement and exposure on the 9 ball been potted of the break .
personally i would say a rerack is the best option
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expertfluke
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 749
From: Hertfordshire
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Posted: 2006-06-29 11:04
Surely the exciting thing about 9-ball is the element of luck (ie: on a break, combos, flukes etc). If you don't like luck then take up snooker, err actually most decent 9-ball players are failed snooker players. So maybe thats not an option - so about the 9-ball going in on the break?..... 
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spoony
Quite a regular
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 55
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Posted: 2006-06-29 13:52
all these posts have been for nothing?
in my opinion mark was a fool not to accept the nine, is it really a great peice of sportsmanship to offer the re-rack i bet daryl could not beleive it when he did not accept it. and sure enough daryl finished him off.
im not slagging mark off and i can see where he is coming from but there was a referee who actually racked the balls. so no blame at all lies with mark.
he should have let it be and then after the dust has settled we can then see where maybe the referee had gone wrong and then a solution can be found, maybe the ref missed the slightest gap in the balls who knows?
its obvious though that the balls will now have to be tapped at future events, if rileys dont like it then great move the tour to private clubs where every event is the same time of year just like the euro tour, the one thing british 9-ball lacks is consistency.
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Danny
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 909
From: Manchester UK
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Posted: 2006-06-29 14:00
no.. Daryl was not shocked at all when he didn't accept it. Because they agreed this would be the case beforehand.
Sticking to the deal at such a critical stage was the good sportsmanship. Just as Daryl would have done the same on making the agreement.
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spoony
Quite a regular
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 55
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Posted: 2006-06-29 14:47
my opoligies did not know they had an agreement,
but why are they having an agreement in the first place what is the point?
the tour is not being justified by players making agreements to which ever rule they want,
in fact thats the most damaging factor in all this the first tournament in history where players can do as they please,
to other tours this does not look good and to 9-ball in general. either play and adhere to the rules or dont enter the comp its as simple as that
dont ark on about sportsmanship when its totally nothing to do with it
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spoony
Quite a regular
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 55
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Posted: 2006-06-29 14:59
and another point if they had an agreement then why is everyone applauding mark for not taking the rack its what they agreed to do,
and by the looks of it a few poeple knew they had the agreement, so they would look pretty stupid if either player went back on his word.
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