9-Ball
Topic: Mark Gray

Congratulations to Darryl.
But an awsome round of applause to a true gentleman in Mark Gray.
Earl Strickland take note

Yes good shout poolknight.
I would like to personally congratulate Mark Gray.
This guy is a target for how all pool players should act and conduct themselves when at an event, a totally professional attitude and temprament, and to add to that, a great ability to "never miss"

Mark is going to be a great asset to our game over the next few years, as he is already upto number 2 on the BPPPA rankings and chomping at my heels for the number 1 spot!

D4RYL.

Yes, great comments. Talk about the consumate professional, Mark has really shown his class with that gesture.

Lest we forget, Steve Brown did the same thing against Steve Higton when the Bomber made a 9 on the hill only to lose to Higton.

I'd echo these sentiments wholeheartedly - the antics that some players get up to in the name of 'winning' is one of the only things that detracts from my enjoyment of this game. Mark's demonstration of sportmanship in this instance, and general attitude to competing and to opponents, should be congratulated.

Personally, I would be happy to see a re-rack rule for 9s that go straight in to a corner pocket (not kicked in) off the break. Intentionally or otherwise this is a sign of bad racking and is one thing that leads to animosity amongst players at this level. A no 9 straight in agreement or rule would negate this.

Congrats Daryl and Mark.

Regards,

B

I applaud great sportsmanship. And what Mark did sounds very noble, However isn't there the element of luck when breaking? Also Mark didn't rack the balls himself, so in theory he can't be blamed for the 9-ball going in?

A final thought, supposing you break and scratch or leave a 9-ball hanging over a pocket for a combo in a final frame, could you say it was a sign of bad racking and be given the chance to take it again?

It reminds me of the football unwritten rule that when a player is injured the ball is kicked into touch. Then the opposing team throws the ball back to the team that kicked it out. I'm rambling now!

PS: Good to meet a few faces at the weekend and well done to Daryl and Mark. (I'm sure mark will win again fairly soon - Pun intended! )

Darryly you have also shown great class once again mate in publicly congratulating Mark.
Well done both of you

Yep, good point. Well done to both Daryl & Mark, it might be a good idea to adjust the rules like you say . When I played Craig Osborne on Saturday he suggested & I agreed that we re-rack if the 9 went straight in, didn't actually happen in our match though...!!

Also it looks like Mark Gray will take the number 1 ranking after Stafford as Daryl will be playing in the IPT event in Las Vegas.

Here's my thought on the matter, and it's a very simple one...

If you don't like straight-in 9s on the break, then let's start playing 10 Ball!!!

Edit - forgot to say congratulations to both players on what reads like an excellent final - and to BDK for his (as ever) excellent reporting!

Best wishes

thecardman

www.scottish9ball.com
The Cardman's Blog

I think that I am missing something here,
is eveyone saying that if you pot the 9 ball perfectly legally, you should then offer the opponent a re-rack.
It may not be your intention to pot the 9 off of the break but if it goes in, you win the game or at least that's what the rules say.
Congratulation to Daryl for winning this event but to Mark I am not sure what to say.
Will those IPT players who pot the 8 ball on the break, offer a re-rack to their opponents? I don't think so..........

On 2006-06-26 13:45 , expertfluke Wrote:

Obviously this unwritten agreement or written rule wouldn't work with the ball still on the playing surface as distance to the pocket for a hanger would then be open to debate.

It is interesting to hear that this was agreement was made prior to another match. I'd certainly go for that if suggested to me.

Those who know about the rack, know perfectly well what happened when a 9 goes straight in, and it isn't any of this 'hoodoo voodoo' nonsense of "that happens when I break from a certain point using a certain amount of ......" It is poor racking, plain and simple. Yes, table conditions sometimes result in difficulties in attaining the perfect rack, but at least such an agreement would partly account for that and save a lot of the current problems between players caused by the racking.

I'd be interested to hear 'top' players views on this (although doubt they'll be posted in a public forum) as there is certainly a trade off here between an opponents sloppy racks resulting in a 9 off the break and the related likelihood of making a wing ball.

I've also watched a couple of 'top' players whose 9s seem to move disproportionately to their 'status' and my assumptions about their racking knowledge. I know this contradicts the above para so I'd better stop that one right there, but again this is an argument for this rule.

Regards,

B

On 2006-06-26 14:39 , malaguista Wrote:

I think the rules also state that the balls should be racked as tightly as possible. Deja vu here - I'm sure this has been discussed before!

Regards,

B

Yes its a simple agreement that most UK players seem to like....we often announce this before a match starts...if 1 player doesnt agree then you carry on regardless.


D4RYL.

Cardman, same happens in 10-ball mate, the principle of making the centre ball remains the same.

15 ball break has different physics to 9 or 10 ball, so the 8 can't go straight in bottom bags.

Yes this happened to me, and i learned from it as i'm sure Mark will. And he will come back stronger for it.
This is a GRAY area lol. And i think that something should be looked at to stop this from happening. The way pool is going at the mo we should get this sorted!!! so the game can go from strength to strength in a positive way. Any ideas anyone.??
Well done Mark, i know how you must feel. Sportsmanship is a rare thing in 9 ball, but personally for me there is not enough of it! like i said a long time ago..... if there was more of it in 9 ball then maybe it would get more respect than some people give it.
Well played Dazzler. Well played the both of you.

forgive me for being thick and sorry if this has been suggested but isn't upto the other player to check the rack? I certainly congratulate the sportmanship shown though, I bow to you Mr Gray and you Mr Peach sir!

For some players winning a rack by pocketing the 9 ball off the break is great if they are the one breaking, but on the recieving end its devastating to say the least. I have heard of players nearly giving up the game due to bad run either by the 9 ball being pocketed off the break, fluky 9 balls, scratches from funny angles, and genral bad run of the balls from different situations.

9 Ball has a huge element of luck, players might not able to control the amount of scratches and bad run they get, but flukes/fluky 9 ball and 9 ball off the break can be eliminated by naming pockets such as the game of 8 ball and not allowing 9 balls off the break and "No Farming" (planting the 9). This will force players to run out more and rely less on luck. And the three foul is something I am not to pleased about.

Rule changes of 9 ball would reduce the percentage of luck and hence increase the level of skill required to win a rack, but these changes would have to be implemented by the governing bodies to really change the face of 9 ball. I think the rules should change if not in the world than at least with the British Pool Federations, so incidents that happened to Steve and Mark will not happen to other players again.

I think players making an agreement to not allow 9 balls off the break is ok, but this is a short term solution to each individual game and not a tournament wide solution, therefore increasing the likely hood of this incident happening again. I think change is good for the game but only if it tilts the balance of the game towards skill and not towards luck.

Well why not have a poll here eh (Big Dave??)? How many BPPPA players would like to see the BPPPA officially promote this as an option that players can make a decision on before a match as seems to happen already, albeit to a limited degree.

B.

should add it to the bottom of the score card given out for each match and the two players have the option to sign it at beginning of the match

Just to add my $0.02 worth...

There is no such thing as a 'perfect rack'.

There! I said it! Phew... glad I got that out my system.

How can there be? Too many variables - worn cloth, dirty ball sets, poor rackers. Even the ball sets themselves are manufactured with 'accepted' tolorences - admittidly low, but they exist nevertheless. A 30mph break can and will expose every variable above.

Which is to say that it is possible for a 9-ball to go in 'clean' from a seemingly perfect rack.

So... what to do if this happens in a match?

My thoughts are:

1) The breaker wins. Thats the rules. Both players have the opportunity to check & accept the rack before the frame starts.

2) Re-rack the balls. Breaker breaks again and hopefully gets a ball down this time.

3) Re-spot the 9-ball and the breaker continues his inning. Why has this not been suggested before? Gives both players a fair chance - the breaker got a ball off the break and deserves a chance to continue their run, plus the opponent has the chance that the breaker might miss.

But... what if the breaker moves the 9-ball towards the corner pocket & fails to pot another ball but leaves a very easy 1-9 combo? Do you re-rack then?

Or... what if the 9-ball goes 'clean' in but doesn't really. ie it deflected so slightly off another ball that nobody noticed?

My point is: where do you draw the line?

I have every respect for Mark Gray in his feeling towards this situation, but in a WPC match or a US Open match the players would not have this decision to make. The rules are announced before the tournament and have to be adhered to.

Admittedly, the conditions are generally better in these events, but should we say that it's ok for a 9-ball to go 'clean' if you have a brand new ball set with a Sardo and a new cloth on a new table - otherwise it doesn't count?

It's a difficult one, I agree, but I don't think that a re-rack is the answer. Perhaps a rule-change - is that really likely though?

Personally, I would like to see option 3 being used - provided both players agree to it before a match, or the TD makes it a rule at the start of the tournament. I feel it's the fairest.

Keep the comments coming. It's good to hear opinions.

BS

I think the est solution to this problem is to pay the 'no farming' rule- used a lot in money games.

If the 9 goes in prematurely, the 8 becomes the new winning ball, if the 8 then goes before all other balls, the 7 is the winner.

In short, the person who pots the last ball on the table wins the rack, eliminates the problem of golden breaks and the problem of fluked 9's