Tourneys
Topic: is there enough money in pool????

with the ipt looking grim do u think there is enough money to be made in the game????


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It depends who for...

The likes of Daryl have proved that there is enough money to be made in the game and earn a nice living.

I still think the future is bright for pool and pool players.

One day, pool is going to hit it big time. And when the big sponsors start flooding in, the players at the top of the tours are going to benefit most.

So unless you are at the top, or have a lot of cash to have private money games, in my opinion there isn't enough money to be made right now.

But with faith in the sport and a bit of patience, one day there will be, for the majority of full time professionals.

more views please????

I'd love to share your passion and enthusiasm Danny (trust me I really would!) but as you rightly point out, aside from the top 4 or 5 players over here, making a living out of this game just isn't a reality!

Yes sponsors would help but their promises seem to come and go all too frequently and to be perfectly honest, we've all seen it before. Over promise and under deliver.

A cold reality, or am I just a cynical bar steward?

Well surgeon -you are cold, calculating and correct.

The game hasn't had any money in it in the UK ever. For example the pro 9 ball tour 12 years ago had a top prize of £750 and now it's £1,000 (sometimes slightly more.) It's hardly progress. The price of a pint has doubled and so too have house prices in some places in 12 years. But money in pool is relatively the same.

I think though it is getting better. I think the APN could really help get more players interested in the 9-ball game. Also the EPT tour could tap into the massive amount of english 8 ball players out there. The BPPPA can still grow but there needs to be incentives for players (money, prizes, spots in international comps etc - Making ranking points actually mean something would be a good place to start.)

At the minute 99% of players do so for the love of the game. It's quite an expensive hobby as well. (Practise, travel, entry fee's and hotels etc) I'm gutted that the IPT appears to be a sham. That is something that fired the imagination of the part - timers and seemed to offer real rewards $$$$ to 'professionals' like Daryl, Pat Holtz, Imran and Raj etc

The best thing we can do is support Big comps and encourage APN leagues and get other players to join in. More players = More money and also makes it more attractive to sponsors...

PS: Here's a question: Why should sponsors get involved with 9-ball - What's in it for them?

To be honest, it's much like a chicken and egg scenario.

Sponsors will be reluctant to get involved, invest money, time & resource as the captive audience is limited.

There would be more willing if there was TV exposure, however, TV will not invest in a sport without a full order book of potential sponsors.

The long awaited UK 9Ball Championship should offer a clear view as to whether future investment, sponsorship and TV interest is a reality.


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Crazy Cue

Actually when the UK Tour had sponsorship back in the early stages the prize money was very good. Unfortunately, it went a bit wayward over the next few years and eventually came to a close.

With respect to earning enough money from the game to make a living, you would need to either:-

A. Make a commitment and move to the States and do the living out of a suitcase kind of thing or...

B. Promote yourself like crazy and find a good sponsor. Nick van den Berg and Ralf Souquet are good examples of really good promotion, they both conduct themselves with absolute professionalism and market themselves very well with clothing lines, official websites etc. (Helps being a good pool player aswell )

I would probably advise in getting a part time job and play pool semi professionally on the side if you want ambitions to play full-time, and in the long run with enough good finishes a sponsor might come along.

Last year APN promoted what is still the largest independent 9-ball event to be held in the UK. The event that I put on was my vision for UK pool, £10000 prize money, hotel venue, international stars and relatively low entry fee's. The players that played in the event loved it, however, and this is part of the problem with UK pool, not all players showed their backing. Had the event been financially successful with a high number of entries then I would have put more events like this on.

I think it is not always about the promoters of the sport trying to attract money but for the players and enthusiasts to play their part as well, both from an entries point of view but also how they conduct themselves of the table.

APN-Leagues is a completely different concept and so far has been really well received - an announcement will be made this week regarding the launch of 65 new leagues in January. There will be leagues in every region and major town/city where possible. This is a massive undertaking and it needs support from the players.

Pete,

If you did another APN Invitational l I think it would attract a lot of people, I know I would play in it, as I didn't get the chance to play in all of the qualifiers.


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Justin

On the comeback trail!

Any decent player that entered last time won't bother this time if the handicap system hasn't changed. Giving a player a 3-0 start when they only need to pot 4 balls will never attract "international stars". Have you considered that this is the reason why your high entry expectations were way off?

We are talking about making a living out of the game. The impression I got was that APN didn't want the top players to enter because it would put the lesser players off.

So if you want support from the players you need to make it a little more attractive to them.

APN is supposed to be for Amateurs - hence the handicap system. It's supposed to give everyone a chance. Although I agree the system of giving away 3 racks start and your opponent only having to pot 4 balls can be harsh but that's very rare.

I've noticed a few BPPPA players in the APN leagues, including top ten players and they tend to be top of the league even with the handicap system in place. If you are good enough you should still win. But surely we should be trying to give more players the chance to win?

The APN is supposed to be an amateur league, so why should the professionals come in and take all the money?

On 2006-11-14 10:31 , 412-414 Wrote:

The tournament I was talking about above was the APN INvitational and was an OPEN event with no handicaps (£10,000 prize money, and a hotel venue) - I don't know where you have your information from?

APN-Leagues, as expertfluke says, is for AMATEUR players and as a result is handicapped, with APN-Leagues we are not trying to attract international players we are trying to create a large amateur player base throughout the UK that will only benefit the game.

The handicapping system is being revised to make it more simple for next season.

Thats fine I couldn't agree more. All I'm saying is that this thread is discussing PROFESSIONALS making a living out of the game. So why bring up an amateur league?

Just seems like a way to plug the event to me.

I have spoke to an APN representative who actually agreed with all of my points. Don't get me wrong, the more people that try to grow the game the better but this was a very poorly ran competition. Rules were changed after the event had started without notice and regional qualifiers were held over 150 miles away from the region!

I could go on all day.

No the thread was asking the question - 'Is there enough money in pool?'

Not just PROFESSIONALS - If its asking can you make a decent living out of pool - then the answer for 99% of readers is no. Then the question is - how do we increase the money in pool (sponsorship / more players etc) And the APN is a big factor in growing the sport. (the BPPPA losing the backing of rileys is a blow)

If the teach was 'just plugging an APN event' then you were 'just knocking an APN event'

We are all on the same side, so let's look for positives.

Of course we are all on the same side. Thats why we have debates like this to sort things out.

Yes I am "knocking the event" because the organisers need the players opinions. Anything in life can only be improved with genuine honest feedback. Sometimes feedback is negative but becomes positive if it helps to improve things. You only need to look at the great work Ted has done recently with the BPPPA after a few harsh words were said.

APN have just said that handicaps will be revised so the improvements have started already.

Teach - obviously I got my wires crossed with your original post but my points concerning the leagues still stand. You are making an effort and thats great, but surely you will agree that player feedback is crucial to the development of your business.

Totally agree with you 412 118 118. feedback is what makes the pool world go around - keep it coming...

I totally agree that feedback is required to make things progress and I welcome it. Things were not as good as they could have been this year but it gives us the impetus to improve for next year.

Regionals and Nationals dates for next year are already set and we already have 65 clubs on board, this will mean minimal travelling for regional champs. We are also guaranteeing £5000 prize money for next years Nationals.

If you have any concerns or want to discuss anything further then please feel to pm or email me.

On 2006-11-13 13:25 , TheSurgeon Wrote:

No your not cynical, the present reality is no different about pool than here in the states, except the appreciation of the game (snooker) towards the public seems to have more acceptance.

Looking at the big picture, with the pros at the end of the rainbow, what type of lower platforms are in place from amateurs to semi-pros to pros. By creating these sought after platforms your also creating your future viewership and player base. Everything should probably be driven towards gaining a spot in the World Championship, or the Junior Worlds or the US Open in Virginia.

What has been done to get snooker to where it is may be the path pool needs to take, I don't know. In the states not one pro pool player would ever want their child to become a pro pool player, plain and simple. Mike Sigel put a golf club in his first childs hands because of obvious reasons.

The lack of TV coverage for pool is what needs to be addressed, There is no reason why Matchroom Sport, couldn't work alongside the BPPPA, EPT, etc to get more of the UK pro level tournaments on screen, like for example, nowadays, everything that is to do with pool, is shown on Sky TV, but the problem is, there isn't enough up to date coverage, Sky have this stupidly horrible habit of showing last year's tournament as a run up to the MC, WPM, WPL or WPC, etc, but none of the UK tour events or Euro Tour events are shown on TV, here.

Snooker became popular and widely accepted because of the amount of TV coverage and championship tournaments, like the B&H Masters, Embassy World Championships, but it slowed down because of the same problem here as what the US is going through now... The Gov't... and I mean that by 2 good examples...

1. A few years back, there was a Britsh law, that was passed, banning the sponsorship of sporting events from tobacco companies, which pretty much ruined alot of sports because there was now a limited amount of time before the ban came into effect, which meant, that once the tobacco companies weren't able to sponsor events, then the prize money wasn't as big, untill the alternative sponsor(s) were found else where, but there are now fewer events shown on TV, as what there was in the 80's and 90's, but still widely popular and widely accepted, the main guys that made snooker so popular are Steve Davis, Jimmy White and Alex Higgins, along with the many other characters, that the game had.

2. The recent passing of the bill in US Gov't banning Online Casinos & Gambling, which obviously when it came into effect, it was always gonna mistake anyone that was getting sponsorship from the online casinos.

I will say though, another thing that pool really needs, is characters, you got many players, but not as many with character, if you know what I mean and I think that once there is more TV coverage, more characters in the game will develope and eventually increase the acceptance and popularity here

Although I say this now and there'll be sure that a few guys are disagreeing with me as I write this, but everyone has thier own views on it

Willie

Casting your spell again Wizard - some excellent points there - plenty to ponder.