Tourneys
Topic: EPT Liverpool Open

At the end of the day, you are trying to please a lot of people and that makes it an extremely hard job im sure.
I just think the single elimination thing is really limiting your market. the majority of players that turn up will be players that think they can genuinely win the comp. Those who consider themselves to be quite good, and might hope to make the quarters or semis are less likely to turn up. Its all or nothing. To do a round trip of some 400 miles, costing £200-£250 to be knocked out straight away is going to put people off.

I guess you cant have it all - the current format is perfect for the pros but perhaps not for the part timers. To get a UK supertour you need a lot of people on board.

I am sure everyone appreciates what you are trying to do though, and by no means am I having a go. Just trying to make constructive suggestions on how you can get more runners.

I just wish I could get a chance to travel down to one of these events. Sadly, with what I've got on this year, I don't see it happening in 2007

And to those of you in the "South" who are complaining about events taking place in Liverpool, Manchester, etc, just remember, for a minute, that there are UK players travelling from Wales, Ireland and Scotland - not to mention those from the Continent - who have to worry about hotels and travel costs for every event. I'd love to hear the reaction if Daryl managed to arrange an event in Scotland!

By the way Daryl, if you do expand the tour to include other disciplines, go for Straight Pool (I'm determined to have this disciplined played throughout the UK!).

All the best for the EPT, Daryl, and (if you're really unlucky) I'll maybe see you when I'm in Blackpool at the end of the month for the Magicians' Convention.

Best wishes

thecardman

www.scottish9ball.com
The Cardman's Blog

To sustain a tour without a quite major sponsor and pay decent prize money is a very, very difficult task.

Over the years I have played on many tours predominantly English 8 Ball and the problems are always the same. Initially many amateurs who know they have no realistic chance of winning the tournament (but hope they are wrong)or even reaching a semi or quarter final will play because they want a chance to meet and play against the best players.

This is normally quite short lived, maybe a year? when they realise that it is a very expensive hobby and they can't actually win because the top players are so much better. Playing against the best is a great experience and one I would recommend anyone to try but after a few tournaments the novelty tends to wear off.

£90 plus expenses is just too much money for many of the keen average to decent players to pay for an event they can not win. To acheive good turnouts consistently over a period of years these players need to stay involved. Speaking personally £30 - £50 is probably the level at which I would play.

The other option is to increase the entry fee/prize fund to try and attract an international field effectively only appealing to professional players.

It looks to me at the moment as though this tour is pitched somewhere in the middle. There isn't really enough money to attract foreign players and it is expensive for all but the top UK lads.

Of course I could be completely wrong.

I wish you all the best with the tour Daryl and I am sure that with the committment you are putting in if anyone can find the right formula you will.

I think your bang on lefty. really hit the nail on the head. I too love to compete in tournaments, but £40 would be my limit and only if it was double elimination. I play because I have a passion for the game and love to compete not because I think I can make some money at it.

Andy

Yeh, great post lefty.

Wow!

This is certainly a hot topic now.

Obviously the problem is that pool in any discipline in this country, with the exeption of a few players is a very expensive hobby.

I, like many others love the game, but am a mediocre player, & probably always will be due to the fact pool is not my living.
However, I do love the game & will play in as much tournaments as I can afford to whether I win or lose.

Its just like golf.
Most golfers are decent enough when playing a round with their mates or at a medal, but most would not dream of making a living from it, yet they will pay hundreds on their annual memberships & spend hundreds possibly thousands on their equipment.

From what I gather, Daryl has lost thousands on his venture so far & would be a shame to see him at the very least, not breaking even.
The man is passionate about the game & deserves all he can get from it.

I will be making a point of going to the event in Solihull in July along with a couple of mates & have already booked my flights and accomodation, just for a chance to mix it with the best in Europe.

On that subject, Travelodge Yardley are doing triple rooms for £26, YES £26!! a night the weekend of July 14/15 and according to the map it is about a mile from the club & a mile & a half from the airport, so there's some free advice!!

Daryl, you are doing a great job so far mate & although I wont be at the next couple of events, I'll defo be at Solihull.

great post lefty ...

finding the balance is difficult just hope it all works out...

but personally i didnt like the new format...

but lets all get together and make it work for in future because this tour as got so much potential!!

Agree, was a great post and it sums up a lot of things here.
Daz agree also, we need to make this work because it will be something special.

It seems that most of the people who replied here liked the old format better.


-----------------

Is there a prize for post of the week Dave?

I have a format suggestion, it might not be practical but here goes anyway.

Why not model the EPT on the English IPA 8 ball tour. This tour has been running successfully for years and attracts players of all standards. In fact they have 226 players and you have to qualify each year if you want to play.

Effectively you have two divisions of players as you are contemplating next year. Each weekend there is a professional event, an amateur event, and an open event which is the largest.

If you were to charge everyone £30 for the open event, then maybe £20 for the amateur event, you could then make the professional event entry what you wanted. The top 32/48 players will probably pay £100 a piece.

This would give the top players two good chances to earn decent money, and everyone else both a chance to play the top players and enter a tournament with players more their own level all for £50.

Races would probably have to be reduced to fit things in. The reason I think this works for the IPA is that everyone feels they have something to play for.

Daryl, most new businesses loose money first year, just about break even second yr and usually start to make a profit third yr, so you still have time, stick at it mate, ohhh have you thought of sponsorship from the multi millionairs on Dragons Den...you may laugh....but one of them might like playing pool, im sure there must be a good salesman here somewhere..

very good post leftie and bangkokpool

i am a salesman but at the moment i dont have a lot to sell and to be honest if i was on the panel of dragons den (im not that rich before you all get any silly ideas) but if i was i would laugh us out the door.

english pool has far more players and far more opportunities for people to play than we do.

in my town chorley the have at least 30 pub teams of seven to ten men a squad thats about 250 players in one town.

i would estimate the whole of the city of preston inc chorley have ten people who own a american pool cue. that is a big difference in catchment area and obviously in possible tournament players.

However even if EPT or BPPPA were getting 100 regular entrants whats an extra 30/40 players in prize money £2000 total its not gonna transform the sport and it is certainly not gonna attract any more sponsors or increase the advertising revenue.

for me to sell this to anyone its not about players its about spectators its about media coverage its about getting their name /product in front of thousands of people not in front of hundreds of players.

i am not being negative i am trying to bring us to a position of commercial sense and reasoning.

more people in this country play squash and badmington than play tennis but i know who is better paid.

we have had greater success at the other two (olympic golds world number ones ect) but still can anyone name me 5 players of either sport ?

we currently have 2 main tours plus the scots plus ireland and the APN and yet most people use this site not theirs.

we get no mention on TV or radio or media we dont even film the tours for youtube or similar outlets

we have talent and benefits in all tours but not the complete package IMHO in any

sometimes the loudest voices on this forum are the better players. however as pro players as boyzi points out he has played pool since he was 15 with respect that is not the basis for ensuring a product ( which is what we are) is financially viable.

the top players like boyzi dazzler ect ect have an important role of getting players to play but so has people like ted and andy jeromidis as TD's and deffinatley big dave from a media point of view.

but we also need the accountants solicitors salespeople business men of which there must be plenty on this forum to run and advise "the business" of american pool

sorry this is going on but the essence of what i am saying is what ever format we choose we must:

choose one
all stick to it
use one web site
film the tour
promote through the media
ect ect


give me a product i can say to advertisers i will put bums on seats who will see you and ill walk into dragons den no problem.

How do u get the results off this tournie i am going on the draw but the results aint showing!

this live scoring is great .........................

There is no Live scoring for this event. There was just a live draw. Results will be published as soon as we have them.

Good post Pool jedi.....some real food for thought. How do we position american pool in the sports market place? It's like a holy grail...But I believe 100% in Dazzler and what he's trying to achieve. I'm also a Big fan of the APN. I guess supporting and always trying to improve things are the way forward.

I can't help thinking it could do with a turbo boost of somekind to help it - Like when Ronnie O'sullivan started playing or a TV programme or something. Maybe having 2 leagues!!!

home now..
some of the results...
Mick won his pre-lim and won 10-3 against Neil
Riggers won his pre-lim and lost against Mark 4-10
Caroline won her pre-lim against Nigel and lost 3-10 against Daryl
Crashburn lost his pre-lim against Nicholson and Andy lost to Daz afterwards. (1-10)
Colclough won his pre-lim and then lost to Carl

So for as far as I know or can remember:

D Peach 10 : 3 Caroline Walch     
D Simmons 2:10 I Majid
G Edge ?:10 B Saleh
A Ralph ?:10 N Jenkins
P Williams ?:? T Hunt
S Capaldi 10:? S Appleton
M Segal 1:10 W Scott
B Davies 10:8 Karl Boyes
D Appleton 10:1 A. Nicholson
R Haddon ?:? W Smith
K Uzzell ?:? D McCarthy
S Gibson 9:10 V Facquet
R Diks 10:? S Judge
S Ward 10:? T David
T Weafer ?:10 J Mathers
C Morris 10:? S Colclough
M Gray 10:4 L Rigby
O Ragueiro ?:? N Cummins
P Harrison ?:? S Gardner
B Harris ?:? S Higton
J Kay 10:? M Chapman
S D'Vali ?:10 R Jones
M Felder ?:? K Brown
S Brown ?:? A Worthington
J Shaw ?:? A MacDonald
C Smith ?:? T Gear
A Croasdale ?:? J Fulcher
C Coventry ?:? G Esprit
M Hopgood ?:? D Moore
H Ali ?:? B Leigh
P Osiecki ?:? L Dodd
N Raybone 3:10 M Hill

99% accurate

pooljedi
totally agree wth you mate, my feeling is that this HAS to be run as a business to have a chance to just beak even, i do know that unless we get tv coverage it will be almost imposible to get a serious sponsor, now if we could get tv coveage, i have contacts who will get us sponsors.