Tourneys
Topic: EPT, raising the bar.........

I think you're wrong about the prize money Dubliner. Previously you didn't pick up anything for winning 2 matches but now you do so for me that makes it better value for money because for an extra £15 I have a much better chance of covering my entry fee.

Regarding what happens if a top 64 field doesn't fill at a particular event I would definately not drag in players from the lower division because that confuses the whole ranking system. I'd be interested to know what happens in Europe and no doubt Shir will but in and tell us but the options appear to be:

1. Change it to top 70 or 75 to allow for inevitable absences having pre-lims / byes where necessary. This probably gives you a better chance of getting near the 64.

2. Just have byes in the round of 64 possibly giving the byes to the top seeds.

Alternatively, if you expect the number of entrants to settle around the 100 mark you could go for top 40 in division 1 (meaning a near 32 man field expected at each event) and the remainder would make up a near 64 man field.

Dubliner ... don't agree. I'm interested in attending the EPT events because of the two tiers being put in place. I think it's a good idea. It gives the guys in the challenge tour a chance to slowly improve to a top level, but still win some cash and titles ...

Please forgive me this is my first post on Pro9 but having read the thread I feel compelled to say what I think.

I have played on a few of the EPT events and I think they are fantastic and I also think the same about the BPPPA events. You will be thinking this guy is a chopper and you would be quite correct BUT I LOVE THE GAME in all it’s forms.

The recent proposed changes worry me!

On top of the points already raised I would like to add.

Daryl has done a fantastic job but I think he might be moving into the territory that he criticises other tours for… and I think we should walk before we run with EPT.

I was concerned to see:-

•    Higher entrance fees

•    Lower Payouts

•    Total change of format with little or no consultation with the EPT players in general.

(This is the players tour? Where was the consultation?)

Also, I turn up and pay my cash for the chance to play Ronnie or Appleton as this would be a great experience, I could only learn from.

But if you split the field for EPT as purposed there is all sorts of problems and the players on cusp of the two leagues will suffer. Where do these players go when the likes of a Souquet turns up. Will a player be forced into the minors if there is a full field in the premiership? THIS WOULD BE WRONG. The Pro events will need to be ran at full occupation to gain the funds for the payouts, so these problems are inevitable!

Again - What happen when I travel up with premiership mates do I just sit there for a day until I play or will there be a time wasting knockout to keep us quiet at even more expense?

All I feel is when the EPT is split and I end up in the MINORS I might as well play in the local club comps and save my cash as this no chance of me gaining a top 64 spot and the chance to play the greats will have gone!

One final

Daryl - don’t forget a large part of your foundation for your tour THE CHOPPERS!!

Sorry for my RANT and RAVE……

FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME!

From my own personal point of view the changes for 2007 will probably mean I won't be coming to the events and I'll explaing why.

Travelling down from Scotland (mostly on my own due to other players not feeling they would/could pay this much to enter pool comps and/or they don't like US 8 ball) means the expenses are pretty high (around £200 per event).

I would need to reach the quarter finals to make about £100 and then the semi finals to make around £300. For a whole weekend playing this is not much and would be tough to do at every event due to the strong field of players.

The payout structure from 2006 suited me better as reaching the last 16 (£250) meant that I had at least covered my expenses and made a little for the weekend by staying onto the Sunday finals, whereas reaching the Sunday final stage now means I haven't broke even.

If they played it down to the quarter finals then it would be worth my while travelling but I'm not sure if this timescale could be met or would want to be from the organisers point of view.

The tour itself is 1st class and I hope it continues for the benefit of everyone involved.

I like the idea of a two tier system as that would be beneficial to all but not sure if the player numbers would sustain this happening.

If the IPT was still in full flow, I would go to these events regardless of costs as it would be good tournament practice for bigger comps.

Please excuse me if this point has already been clarified in an earlier post, but would the challenge tour be the same entry fee as the main tour?

Basically I think the two-tier system is the best way forward for the tour. It gives the lesser players a chance to play players of their own standard and win money from a tour, something that probably wouldn't have happened in the old format. It will also reward those who do well on the challenge tour with the chance to move to the pro tour.

Fortheloveofthegame, what would you rather have: the opportunity to play the "big name" players or the chance to win money from a tour? I think you should have to earn the right to play these big names and if the only reason you pay your £75/£90 is to play these big names then perhaps you should just save yourself the expenses and just play the "big name" players for £100 or something.

This 2 tier system gives everyone a chance to win money from the tour, including "the choppers". This system has worked in many other sports and in most other sports you have to earn the right to play these top players and I think this tour should be no different. Snooker operate the two tier system with great success and I think this can work in pool as well. Your doing a great job Daryl, keep it up.

Rag, All the 64 pro places would pay in 1 or 2 istallments for the years total events.....then if a player doesnt show, only if he/she can provide an official doctors note would he/she get a refund for that event. This way, it provides a solid and fair system for entry.


Dubliner, The reason for playing the challenge tour on the sunday was so that players in this division could cut down on thier ex's because they would effectivly be playing a 1 day comp.
The prize money was altered slightly so that all players in general could have a chance of picking something up, otherwise if a player kepps reaching the last 32 then 64, then 32 and doesnt win anything he/she would probably stop coming. This was to try and make it fair for everyone, not just the guys that reach last8, last4, or finals. otherwise before you know it the events would only have 60 runners with worthless payouts for the lower places, and weve already been down this road.


FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME, The higher entry fees is because last year (as already stated in another topic) we made a loss of £6,000.....this was expected and we didnt have a problem with this, but although we are not wanting to "make money" from this tour (unlike others) at the same time its not a charity, and therefore has to runnot to a big loss.
No we could say we keep the entry fees the same, and the prize fund would be much less but this is not the way to help our sport to grow so for now we have to compromise slightly. We are in talks with 2 potencial sponsors, but these things dont happen over night.
Yes it is the players tour, but at the end of the day i am the person with the final say, and if i believe that something will really benifit our game and ALL the players in the long run then i will go for it.
Now, if Souquet or Ortmann turn up in the future they would have to play in the challenge division just like everyone else who was outside the top 64 rankings. For things to go forward in our game there must be NO favoritism at all.....if they wanted to play on the pro tour then they should show support to the tour now and play on all of the events!
As for lower ranked players having the chance to play "BIG NAMES" this will be possible as we will be holding a couple of events each year that are "non ranking" open events.
And, the so called "choppers" are the main reason for adopting this system in the future. As ive said it will give all players a chance to earn some money from pool. and i mean ALL.


Devil, even though some of the next 4 events may not offer you superb value regarding prize money, i really beleive that a player of your calibre should play them. WHY? because on the other side of the coin, apart from the future system benifiting lower ranked players, it will definitely benefit the top players too, no matter where you live.

This is the only way to have a REAL pro tour for the Pro's, and at the same time give all the players who are striving to get somewhere in the game something worthwhile when they actually succeed in getting there, and continuing on from this, the lower ranked players will get value for there money while trying to improve their games.

With this system, everybody wins. Ok, there is the odd individual that will inevitably be unhappy, but nobody can please everybody all of the time.

Football, rugby league, rugby union, darts, basketball, boxing, snooker, English pool, i could go on forever with this, but just about every SUCCESSFUL sport has adopted this basic system.

When i started the EPT with Mark Segal and also Mark Mills, it was never our intension to just plod along at the same level of what weve seen until now, we want to take UK pool forward to level where other nations will look and think "yeah we can do what the EPT has done too" and eventually we will have a sport that the general public would actually see as a sport and not a passtime.

As far as running before we can walk, moving too fast etc....We beleive that we have waited long enough for someone to come along and actually make a genuine attempt to do something great with our game.

This is it! and i urge everyone who wants to be a part of this game to back and support the EPT, as were not doing this for our selves, were doing it for the game and the players.


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i'm looking at this from the point of view of someone who'll frequent the lower end of the game for some time.....

FOR_THE_LOVE_OF_THE_GAME, this isn't a personal attack so sorry if it comes out that way, but i agree with Cusack_147 and would like to point out that the concept of a multi-tier system has been suggested many times before on here, its a shame the server crash wiped out most of the posts on it as when the BPPPA kicked off and took over from the Pro9 tour, there was a call for a two tier system then by the players.

Higher entry fees are only for the top tier, a reduced fee for the lower divisions is a bonus in terms of getting the lesser skilled/consistent players playing on a regular basis. (its no fun paying £££ to get thumped badly by a decent player, i don't recall learning much from those matches) I don't want to feel like Morecambe getting whipped by Man U every week, i want to be playing against players who are capable but not out of my league.

Plus the more that can be done to attract new players, the bigger the player base, the more attractive to new sponsors!

One of the main reasons i believe Daryl and others are doing this, is for the benefit of us lesser/occassional player.

Plus everything is at such an early stage, these guys are experienced enough not to implement something without proper thought or consultation.

if these so called top ranked europeans players knew a good tour was happening infront of them, they would start entering the EPT events now!! to get themselves on the rankings.

ive only been playing since the first EPT and at the moment im ranked 46th, and if im to drop out of the top 64 and wouldnt be to disheartened because with new system ill be able to carry on playing on the tour against players of the same level but still be able to win money, which will keep u determined and motivated to get back in the 64
SUPERB IDEA DARYL!! keep up the good work!!

Good post Lancaster Bomber.

May i add also, you dont improve you game by playing someone who is a 10fold better than yourself in a match.

Only if you play someone like this on a REGULAR basis would you start to see improvemant....and this would take some time also.

Its much better for all players if they are actually COMPETING, and not playing a player that is far too good for them and only scoring 1 or nil racks.The majority of players will improve by playing in "match situations" where they are competing to actually win the match. This will help all players to overcome match nerves, or use them to their advantage. All this will help players to improve much quicker.

I hope this helps.


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glossopscratcher, the perfect post!

This shows exactly what the attitudes of all of us should be for us to take our game forward.

No favoritism will be shown to anyone.....if they want to be on the EPT pro tour than they will have to compete just like everyone else.

Its the only way it can be.


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Daryl,
Roughly when do you foresee the challenge tour starting?

I am very interested to play in this.

the only other thing i'd like to see is an event down on/towards the south coast as the nearest event is still at least 2 hours drive away!

Other than that, i'm starting to practise for 2008!

with the new system i feel instead of us keep mentioning these "top ranked europeans" it will develop and create "top ranked UK players".
we really have an amazing tour in the making just hope everybody else has the same enthusiasm!!

i dont post on here that much, but i did play when dougs tour was around so i think im qualified to say something,

this is for you daryl,

most of the players up and down the country will know that what you are doing is the way foward and these poeple or so called players should stop working out what might happen, dont listen mate coz if they want to miss out then so be it.

i bet players moaned about the euro tour at first but look where that is now,

and look at the ipt every player never moaned about that and look what state that is in,

glossop, you are stating more or less everything that we want to acheive in your posts.

LancasterB, This is something that hasnt been mention until now, but yes there will be more of a big spread on the map for events so to be fair to ALL.

Maddog, We are already working on things now, but until we get towards the 4th event of this season (Solihull) we wont be announcing dates/venues....

But it will be starting before the year is out!


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Nice one Spoony!

Exactly, if players want to miss out then there is nothing i can do about that.
But if everyone gets involved it will be huge.......I dont mean to be disrispectful, but in the past, when would some of the lower ranked players actually contemplate winning £1,000 or £1500 for a 1 day comp and really have a great chance of doing so? i'd say never! .... until now, but the only way this will be a reality is by these players and many others showing the support of the tour, because without the numbers this aint possible.


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just another point on the two tier system it also gives youngsters coming through some where to play, yes im sure they would love to play the top players but............

you have to walk before you can run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

maybe a junior tour aswell daryl say 16 players the possibilities are endless lets stop all these quieries and and give the ept a chance,

correct me if im wrong daryl but did you not take a loss last year to kick this tour off and get a tour what the uk needs?